Talkin' Shit About A Pretty Sunset

All true.

In the same vein, I wonder why Democrats are excited about Obama. What goals that they value does Obama represent?

He won't do a thing about the "War on Drugs."

He won't do a thing about the "War on Terror."

He won't do a thing about the War in Iraq.

He won't do a thing about our eroding civil liberties.

He gives a nice speech and he's better than McCain, is what is seems to boil down to.

--Random Libertarian
 

LB,

I have been sporting my Obama shirt around town here (in Conservatopia) and have been getting nothing but warm comments. It's going to be a LANDslide, especially after tomorrow night's 30 minute tutorial.

I hope Random Libertarian watches.
 

RL,

If you're interested, go check out Obama's take on the issues at his website here. They are far more realistic than anything Ron Paul proposed which all seemed either 100% unachievable (getting rid of IRS, Dept of Education) or unnecessary (returning to gold standard).

I like Obama because he's a center-left pragmatist who inspires, is calm, intelligent, has a different vision for the USA's role in the world, and has a positive attitude for the future of this country. That's just to name a few.

And btw, giving inspiring speeches is something that real leaders do. Sadly, people seem to have forgotten that. He drew 100,000 people in both Denver and St. Louis, while McCain just under 5,000.

You are in the minority at this point.
 

RL, you said: "He gives a nice speech and he's better than McCain."

So you'll be voting Obama? Virginia needs you! If you do, I'll buy you baby back ribs and a beer in Stauton.
 

Obama's tax cut may be a good reason to vote for him too.
 

Loved this little rant and shared it on my facebook page. Maybe it was part of your strategy, but when I read the title, which correctly would include a hyphen in right-wing guy, I read it as your having found the proper wing-man for your purposes.

Party on, Wayne!
 

Redwing and LB,

I have no doubt that Obama's going to win; my question is, why are people on the left excited about him?

Redwing's post offered no answers.

LB finds returning to the gold standard "unnecessary" -- when the inflation from these many recent bailouts hit -- bailouts all supported fully by both McCain and Obama, maybe he'll change his monetary tune.

Again, why the excitement? If you want better schools, no more wars, and no more encroachments on your civil rights and liberties, Obama has no answers.

Obamamania is a cult of personality. There are no values or ideas behind it. Don't shoot the messenger.

--RL
 

To be more specific, Redwing and Lonnie: Obama's campaign has been all about "change."

But what are some of the changes that will come with an Obama Administration compared to the Bush Administration or a hypothetical McCain Administration?

We'll still be in Iraq.

We'll still run huge budget deficits.

We'll still have our War on Drugs.

We'll still find unnecessary future wars to fight around the world (don't kid yourself that he'll keep us out of them).

The public school system will continue to deteriorate.

The dollar will continue to deteriorate.

As I've asked many Obama supporters, what precisely is this "change" Obama promises? It seems to be just a superficial buzzword.

Let's see if I can get a substantive response. No Obama supporter has given me one yet!

Love,
RL
 

RL,

The only cult of personality in American politics of the last year is the weird cult of Ron Paul. To the Ronulans, he can do no wrong, really. I know this because I have a good friend who's so into Ron Paul, there's nothing critical he will accept about him. ;-)

People who support Obama, on the other hand, do not think he's perfect. We do think he'll be a good leader and lift the national mood tremendously. He has plenty of pragmatic plans to change this country; obviously you did not click on the link I provided, so you must not care too much. Let me copy and paste the few you've mentioned.

1 - WAR. The only thing we know is what Obama has said from his website which is: "Immediately upon taking office, Obama will give his Secretary of Defense and military commanders a new mission in Iraq: successfully ending the war. The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased." Sounds like a big change from Bush, and certainly from 100-years-war McCain.

2 - CIVIL RIGHTS, eg, Patriot Act: there's too much info to paste here. Find out the full details of his position here.
 

My 83 year old grandfather immigrated here in the 20's with his parents and older siblings. He fought in WWII and has voted Republican all the way back too Kennedy and is a retired cop.

Grandpop told me and my pop a few days ago that he's "voting for the black guy".

He gave the same reasons that you heard the army surplus guy give. Wow.
 

RL,

As to your second comment, this reveals an overly cynical, fearful view of the future of this country. You wouldn't do very well in public office for sure. And since this negative view is likely widespread amongst your ideological compatriots, it's obvious why the man you wanted as president bombed so emabarrassingly.

For the umpteenth time, there's really too much to spell out in a comment about Obama. The best thing is to actually read his blueprint for change which can be found here. However, I have little faith that you'll actually read it.
 

Lonnie,

Ron Paul's movement is one of ideas, not of personality. Indeed, Ron Paul doesn't have much personality. He's old, weird-looking, and even less articulate than our current president.

Those of us who support him do so because we share his philosophical views on the proper role of government. If Ron Paul ever turned his back on those views, his supporters would turn their backs on him in a heartbeat.

Do you really think Obama will bring our troops home from Iraq? That's what was supposed to happen when the Democrats took control of Congress in '06. Pelosi and Reid have had two years to cut the purse-strings, yet they have even tightened them; indeed, we're spending more on the war now than we were then. And Senator Obama has had two years to vote against funding the war, which he hasn't.

He also stated, in one of the Democratic primary debates, that nothing was off the table against Iran, *including a nuclear first strike.* He speaks belligerently about Iran all the time now; and you think this guy will bring out troops home from Iraq? Not likely.

--RL
 

Lonnie,

Your second post has no substance except pointing me to Obama's "Issues" page. I know where Obama claims to stand on all the issues, but, as with the war in Iraq, I don't have much faith that he'll pursue his stated goals, since his four years of Senate votes don't support what he claims is his position on the war.

Since Obama's issues page is extensive, maybe you could tell me which issues you think Obama will bring change to.

Or don't -- I don't want to ruin anyone's Obama-euphoria. But do me a favor -- over the first year or two of Obama's presidency, ask yourself -- how is this any different from Bush?

--RL
 

"2 - CIVIL RIGHTS, eg, Patriot Act: there's too much info to paste here. Find out the full details of his position here."

LB,

I clicked through your link to see Obama's position on the PATRIOT Act. He voted to re-authorize it in 2006.

On his site he claims there were "three key changes" that were made to the PATRIOT act for him to vote for re-authorization. Read them and see if you think they took any teeth out of that legislation. Typical unprincipled politician, this guy.

He votes for the PATRIOT Act, yet you think he's going to defend your civil liberties? Come on.

--RL
 

I think it is about time for a revolution. Thomas Jefferson said in 200years they willhave to re-do everything. Lets take congress and the executive branch down........... Wait that would not be democratic. Who votes we take them all down?
 

If Disney can take japan and Europe I say we vote for Disney. I know that Davies would be behind that.
 

RL,

I agree, Ron Paul's personality is a bit like a weenie, however, I did not say his movement was a "cult of personality," I said they were like a cult, which is true. You share his ideas, but those ideas are even weirder than his personality (advocates a pre-1913 monetary policy? WTF?). What's more, his ideas are entirely unachievable. This is the guy known as Dr. No because he always votes no and is unwilling to compromise. You think a guy like that would be able to be effective in even 1% of the things he wants to do? Shit ... You can have an unwavering philosophy all you want but trying to ram it through an unwilling Congress and bureaucracy is another thing entirely.

I honestly don't think that you think bringing our troops home from Iraq will be an easy task. He sincerely will try and bring them home, and make sure to leave the country stable --- as important as bringing them home. He's said as much. Any other prediction about what he'll do in office on your part is as valid as your (failed) prediction that Ron Paul would win the presidency.

Obama did fund the troops, despite opposing the war at first. It's one thing to oppose the war, but it's another to cut off funding once they're already committed. He did the right thing. Or we could have done it Ron Paul's way by cutting off funding entirely and having our troops just deal with the consequences and die.

Iran: sure, this is the rhetoric, but it's nothing like the arrogance of the Bush/McCain policy toward Iran (McCain casually singing "bomb, bomb Iran"). Obama has said time and again we need diplomacy with Iran, which is the right way.

You've asked what I like about him, so I'll tell you, off the top of my head:

- He has a very pragmatic approach to problems that's inclusive of the opinions of people who disagree with him. This is the type of attitude that is able to get things accomplished.

- He has a new vision of the US's role in the world. He realizes that the era of the US dictating what other countries should do is over. He realizes that it will take some time to scale back what has been created for over 60 years, but this is a start of a long process.

- His credibility around the world is unmatched by anyone. This is a man who has higher approval ratings from the regular people in other countries than of their own governments. Can you imagine what could be done with this type of power? This will certainly restore our image around the world.

- He is making some of the first steps toward better health care for all Americans.

- He's changing the tax code from regressive (benefits the rich) to progressive (tax cuts for people who make under $250k).

- He has a broad vision of beginning to reduce our dependence on oil and making a green economy.

- An this could be the most important: he has tremendous grace under pressure. He keeps his equanimity despite unimaginable insults and lies against him.

Your saying he won't be different from Bush doesn't deserve much of a response. That's your opinion, but it's an extreme minority opinion, rooted in cynicism and fundamental dislike of American democracy. I don't blame you for your cynicism but I do blame you for having so little optimism in our country.
 

RL,

I just realized I actually did say "cult of personality" with regards to RP. I meant it's more of a cult. Can get everything correct rattling off these quick comments.

;-)
 

Lonnie,

Ron Paul's method for ending our commitment in Iraq would not be "cutting off funding entirely and having our troops just deal with the consequences and die." It would be an orderly withdrawal that would take 6-9 months.

Compare this to Pelosi and Reid's method, which is to run on ending the war, then win, then not only fail to de-escalate our commitment there but actually increase funding. What makes you think Obama's tack will be any different?

You keep saying I have a "cynical" view compared to Obama's "optimistic" view of this country's near future. Well, consider the events of the past seven years -- the out-of-control levels of federal debt, the "War on Terror" that's taking more and more of our civil liberties, the fall of the dollar, the endless commitment of our troops in Iraq, and recently, the collapse and nationalization of our country's entire banking system and the impending hyperinflation that's going to come along with it in 2009. Anyone who's "optimistic" these days isn't paying attention.

Obama doesn't have much of a record we can look at -- he's been a U.S. senator for less than four years. Before that he was a state senator. He has no political philosophical principles that I can discern besides the standard ones for the Republican and Democrats alike: tell people what they want to hear and win at all costs. Unfortunately, that's how we got where we are today.

Anyway, that's my last word.

--RL
 

Sure sounds as if your Ron Paul supporter, Mr. Anonymous, needs to come up for a breath of fresh air. It's been a long time since I heard someone describe the future in such depressed terms. Even my grandparents who lived through the Depression weren't anywhere so pessimistic, and I never recall them describing the Depression times with such gloom and doom. Their description was simple, "everyone had to work hard, had little extra money to spend, but darned if we didn't seem to do better than we had prior to the Depression". So my advice to Anonymous is to dive into the mileu rather than sit on the sidelines and bitch about everything. Life ain't nearly as bad as you think.
 

"But do me a favor -- over the first year or two of Obama's presidency, ask yourself -- how is this any different from Bush? ... He won't do a thing about the War in Iraq."- Random Libertarian

From New York Times this morning (12/6/2008):

"""""""Barack Obama may have been elected only three days ago, but his victory is already beginning to shift the political ground in Iraq and the region.

Iraqi Shiite politicians are indicating that they will move faster toward a new security agreement about American troops, and a Bush administration official said he believed that Iraqis could ratify the agreement as early as the middle of this month.

“Before, the Iraqis were thinking that if they sign the pact, there will be no respect for the schedule of troop withdrawal by Dec. 31, 2011,” said Hadi al-Ameri, a powerful member of the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, a major Shiite party. “If Republicans were still there, there would be no respect for this timetable. This is a positive step to have the same theory about the timetable as Mr. Obama.”""""""

I love rubbing it!! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Your list of failed predictions is growing daily, isn't it.